Subject: Re: Open House Apr. 6 Roch/Brazier
To: talk@kick.fm
Date: Wednesday, April 7, 2010, 2:32 AM
As I approached Miles MacDonnell Collegiate, I noted that the electronic billboard was displaying the information for the open house 'from 6-8pm'.
Information provided at the kiosk in Kildonan Place Mar. 26-28 had indicated the open house was from 5-8pm.
I arrived at 5:40, departing at about 8:10. I took note that when I arrived, residents were already in the building.
Some people did indicate they received a flyer in their paper on Sunday, although not all streets received such information. One person stated that a family member lived by Watt and did not receive any flyer.
The plans for Roch/Brazier have changed, Brazier will no longer be included the active transportation project. A decision was made to stay on Roch.
A new poster was up dealing with bike boulevards including pictures of various traffic calming measures including:
-a bike box
-forced right turns with median refuge
-traffic calming circle
-1 way choker curb extensions
-street closure with cylist and pedstrian access
The poster then continues with the usual definition of a bike boulevard.
In the current plans for Roch, appearing at various intersections heading southbound from Springfield to Midwinter:
McKay - flip stop sign
Kingsford - curb extensions
Hawthorne - curb extensions
Leighton - raised intersection or traffic calming circles
Linden - raised intersection or traffic calming circles
Helmsdale - raised intersection or traffic circle
Chelsea - raised intersection
Donalda - curb extension
Washington - curb extension or raised intersection
Larsen - raised intersection or traffic circle
Union - curb extension
Midwinter - curb ramp
In these current plans there is no loss of parking, though if the residents request it, that issue will be looked at by active transportation.
Though there was a very good representation of ages as well as cyclist/non-cyclist attending the open house, however attendance was only 54 people.
Some of the comments about these plans were:
Concerns about fire trucks being able to get around the traffic circles, one of the consultants answered that the fire trucks would not be able to make a turn around them but the trucks can cut across to the left if needed. According to 311 there are no transit buses that go down Roch.
Concerns were also raised about the traffic circles that people would not go around but instead cut across them. So when wanting to turn left, you would travel around the circle to the left and exit out of the circle. Concerns about potential accidents should people not travel the circle. Irene Campbell who is a resident on Brazier is not as concerned now that the plans for the area no longer include her street, however, is still worried that people simply won't stop for the circles.
A concern brought up by another resident on Brazier who did not wish to give her name, indicated that their street sees alot of traffic off of Henderson and is worried more traffic may come off Roch from those who wish to avoid the traffic calming measures, though she is not a cyclist, her children do ride their bikes.
Another area resident who also did not wish to be named stated he did not like the curb extensions, citing the Nassau St. curb extensions and the bottleneck of traffic it creates. As well as the damage that has been done to vehicles. Considers this project to be a "waste of money" which this resident said would have been "better spent on infrastructure such as fixing the old parks in the area or arenas".
An older couple, Bill and Francis stated that the bike signs had been up for 5 years and had not made any difference. The Kliewers went on to say that they are cyclists but don't consider this project needs to be done, they don't see the need for it, that it's alot of money for something that's just not that important. Although they do like the idea of cutting down on the speeding in the area.
Information provided at the kiosk in Kildonan Place Mar. 26-28 had indicated the open house was from 5-8pm.
I arrived at 5:40, departing at about 8:10. I took note that when I arrived, residents were already in the building.
Some people did indicate they received a flyer in their paper on Sunday, although not all streets received such information. One person stated that a family member lived by Watt and did not receive any flyer.
The plans for Roch/Brazier have changed, Brazier will no longer be included the active transportation project. A decision was made to stay on Roch.
A new poster was up dealing with bike boulevards including pictures of various traffic calming measures including:
-a bike box
-forced right turns with median refuge
-traffic calming circle
-1 way choker curb extensions
-street closure with cylist and pedstrian access
The poster then continues with the usual definition of a bike boulevard.
In the current plans for Roch, appearing at various intersections heading southbound from Springfield to Midwinter:
McKay - flip stop sign
Kingsford - curb extensions
Hawthorne - curb extensions
Leighton - raised intersection or traffic calming circles
Linden - raised intersection or traffic calming circles
Helmsdale - raised intersection or traffic circle
Chelsea - raised intersection
Donalda - curb extension
Washington - curb extension or raised intersection
Larsen - raised intersection or traffic circle
Union - curb extension
Midwinter - curb ramp
In these current plans there is no loss of parking, though if the residents request it, that issue will be looked at by active transportation.
Though there was a very good representation of ages as well as cyclist/non-cyclist attending the open house, however attendance was only 54 people.
Some of the comments about these plans were:
Concerns about fire trucks being able to get around the traffic circles, one of the consultants answered that the fire trucks would not be able to make a turn around them but the trucks can cut across to the left if needed. According to 311 there are no transit buses that go down Roch.
Concerns were also raised about the traffic circles that people would not go around but instead cut across them. So when wanting to turn left, you would travel around the circle to the left and exit out of the circle. Concerns about potential accidents should people not travel the circle. Irene Campbell who is a resident on Brazier is not as concerned now that the plans for the area no longer include her street, however, is still worried that people simply won't stop for the circles.
A concern brought up by another resident on Brazier who did not wish to give her name, indicated that their street sees alot of traffic off of Henderson and is worried more traffic may come off Roch from those who wish to avoid the traffic calming measures, though she is not a cyclist, her children do ride their bikes.
Another area resident who also did not wish to be named stated he did not like the curb extensions, citing the Nassau St. curb extensions and the bottleneck of traffic it creates. As well as the damage that has been done to vehicles. Considers this project to be a "waste of money" which this resident said would have been "better spent on infrastructure such as fixing the old parks in the area or arenas".
An older couple, Bill and Francis stated that the bike signs had been up for 5 years and had not made any difference. The Kliewers went on to say that they are cyclists but don't consider this project needs to be done, they don't see the need for it, that it's alot of money for something that's just not that important. Although they do like the idea of cutting down on the speeding in the area.
One question raised was how much it was going to cost to repair the dings and dents damage done by snow plows.
One resident Shawn said that it's a "great idea, stop stupid speeders". That was the theme for the evening. Many of the people attending had the same thought, to stop the speeders. There were others who loved the idea they wouldn't have to stop at every intersection.
Another question raised was if in-line skaters would be able to use these bike paths, sharrows, bike lanes etc and according Kevin Nixon, yes they will be able to use them.
In attendance was Kevin Nixon, Ruth Marr, Bill Woroby and Councillor Jeff Browaty.
All in all there were mixed reactions to the new plans for Roch. Many were pleased and many were not happy with the money being spent which is slated at $350 000.00, many feeling the money could have been better spent elsewhere.
My thoughts:
Not a great turnout. 54 for the area is not good. It's a start, the travelling road show does seem to be having the effect of getting people out, as is advertising in the Herald and the Sunday flyers. However, 54 is still to low a number for the area and does not provide a significant consultation with the area.
I would like to see the studies done regarding the potential impact on other streets such as Brazier or McLeod as some drivers will chose alternate routes. Great that traffic is being moved off of the active transportation streets, but that could create a problem elsewhere.
I was told that many of the routes were chosen because of input by cyclists, some of whom were the consultants. My issue is that's great..have the cyclists input, but also poll the neighbourhood and the motorists who use the area as well. I find many of these projects tend to be one sided and not a fair representation of the neighbourhood. What I found interesting is some of the less positive comments were coming from cyclists. So if the routes were chosen by cyclists and other cyclists are not as happy with some of the routes, just who were the people chosen for their input?
The one shining spot was pretty much everybody agreed, the multi-use path between Raleigh and Gateway is great and I have to agree. It would be nice to see more of those kinds of pathways than sending additional traffic down other streets and roads.
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Marty I have some traffic counts for you. These I believe are from 2005. For some reason traffic counts were not available for the entirety of Roch and Brazier, just portions, but here they are:
AADT= average annual daily traffic count
Roch
Southbound Springfield to McLeod:
Am 249 PM 307 AADT 2728
Northbound
AM 106 PM 328 AADT 2169
McLeod to Oakview
South:
AM 234 PM 163 AADT 2082
North:
AM 158 PM 268 AADT 2258
Oakview to Midwinter
South
AM 206 PM 127 AADT 1580
North
AM 104 PM 152 AADT 1339
For comparison
Brazier
South
McLeod to Dundeath
AM 143 PM 228 AADT 2098
North
AM 198 PM 262 AADT 2651
Leighton to Midwinter
South
AM 184 PM 206 AADT 2330
North
AM 95 PM 149 AADT 1450
These were the only numbers available.
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Today, tons of great content including
- our own eyewitness account of the Elmwood enclave threatened by Disraeli expropriation,
- the WRHA blockbusting in the inner city, a solution to lingering derelict buildings, - police kept busy nabbing violent criminals,
- That Wine Guy, and
- all about the MYS annual dinner next Thursday, get your tickets www.MYS.ca.
